Trans Advocacy at the State Level

[00:00:09] Hey, it’s me, Imara. Welcome to the TransLash Podcast, a show where we tell trans stories to save trans lives. But we’re clearly in a new, perhaps even unprecedented era in American politics and advocacy work. Consequently, at the state level is going to be more important than ever. Of course, at the federal level, which we’ve already discussed. But states are going to continue to be a sharp battleground for trans people, and anti-trans forces at the state level are going to feel and are already showing signs of being even more emboldened to attack our community. That’s why I wanted to take a look at the state of trans organizing in localities across the United States. And we’re going to look at two very different states in order to get a snapshot about what’s happening and what’s possible. First, I’ll talk with the executive director of one Colorado, Nadin Bridges, about how she’s working to keep Colorado, ostensibly a blue state safe for LGBTQ people.

[00:01:10] We need to be looking at this from immigration standpoint. We need to be looking at this from a reproductive rights standpoint and around gender affirming care and thinking about how do we move together. Then we’ll learn about the struggles and points of hope in the fight for trans safety in South Dakota with advocate Jack Fonder, who has so much to teach us. We just want to be seen and heard and we want to know that our lives are valid no matter what that means. Right? But before we get to these two inspiring and vital conversations, let’s start out, as always, with some trans joy.The. Up, up, up, up, up.

[00:02:07] From the national stage to local politics. We need advocates fighting at every level. Britain Hadas is a fierce community leader working every day for trans visibility and rights In Rochester, New York, he founded Next Generation Men of Transition in 2018 to help support trans men in his city and beyond. But he hasn’t stopped there. You can find him giving keynote speeches, posting workshops and annual trans day of visibility events, as well as serving as board member of the Greater Rochester LGBTQ Plus Political Caucus. Britain was also the first openly trans candidate to run for office in Rochester, where he threw his hat in the ring in 2021 for city council. Here he is to tell us more. So when I first started my physical transition, I realized that here in Rochester I didn’t really see black and brown trans folks. So I did this amazing call for an empowerment show. And there were about like 6 or 7 of us who had lived in Rochester all these years, had never met. And we came together and had this amazing photoshoot. And that photoshoot really became a space for black and brown trans men to just come together. And then we just had our four year cover anniversary last winter. And there were like 30 of us in the picture. So to be able to see that in upstate New York was powerful, but to just create a space because I knew that I just was not the only black or brown transmasculine person. And I knew if I needed the space, someone else needed that space. It just allows me to know that, like, you know, when I chose myself, I didn’t just choose me to survive. I chose my community and all the communities that are intersecting. Britton Hargis You are Trans Joy. I’m excited to kick off this episode with the executive director of One Colorado Native Bridges. Native has been organizing for and with marginalized communities for over 20 years. She is the first black and woman leader of one Colorado, which is the state’s leading LGBTQ Plus advocacy organization. Nadine has held many different titles in addition to executive director, including counselor, mentor and activist. She also serves as an adjunct professor at the University of Denver’s Graduate School of Social Work and as the Health Equity Commissioner for the Colorado Department of Public Health, maybe even earned her master’s degree in social work from the University of Denver alongside a certificate of social work with the Latin X Community Navy. And thank you so much for joining us.

[00:04:48] Thanks for having me.

[00:04:49] First of all, I wonder how you and the rest of your team are handling this extremely turbulent moment. I mean, we’ll get into the details of this, that and the third. But I think a lot of people are just trying to figure out how they’re keeping going in this moment. So I would love to hear any insights or things that you have to share about either how you and or the rest of your team are dealing with the intense emotional and also work agony in this moment.

[00:05:22] I appreciate the question. I think we vacillate between, you know, okay, we got this and also feeling a lot of heavy weight. Half of our team are trans and non-binary. A good chunk of our team, our health equity director, clinical director, we work very closely on the front lines. We’ve had many, many meetings since the change in administration and they’re not always the most positive of of meetings around what’s upcoming. And so we do a lot to try to take care of ourselves, make sure that we’re grounded. But certainly feeling the weight and trying to lean into joy when we could find it.

[00:06:04] So when you lean into joy and I think that that’s such a I don’t know, we can talk about that word and how it’s been stretched in this moment, because joyful isn’t always supposed to be a constant state, right? Like it is a tool of resistance that’s deployed, but you’re not always going to be joyful. Right and right. I think we have to be careful about how we emphasize the word or use the word. But that aside, how are you all finding ways to make it through in this moment, which include joy? I think it’s that that would be the way that I would phrase the question like what are some of the things that are coming up?

[00:06:41] Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. By no means do I want our team or anybody in community to wear a mask or pretend that there’s not trauma happening right.

[00:06:52] Now and violence.

[00:06:53] And what we have been doing is really trying to find space where we can just take minutes for ourselves, where we can laugh, making time for partners and families and pets. And that’s really important to maintain the high level of work that we are faced with. So that’s really important. One of the first things that we did as an organization, once we kind of knew that Trump was going to be in office is well, even before that, we had actually had been preparing for multiple scenarios. So we were able to put out messaging and information to our community, to the board that had messages of what we were doing, as well as, you know, uplifting messages of how as a shield state in Colorado, like what are the things that we need to do? So we convened 40 LGBTQ, 80 plus leaders from across the state, community center leaders, folks who were on the ground, bipoc leaders, indigenous black and brown folks. And we made sure that it was all sectors. We had folks who were in business, folks who were in rail t folks on reproductive rights and immigrant rights. So we created a space for that and agreed that we would continue to work together, figuring out what the tools and resources will need, especially as a state where many gender affirming care refugee families are coming here. We wanted to make sure that we all were understanding what the through lines are.

[00:08:24] So let’s get into the work piece of this. Sure. One of the things that I think is really important and the reason why I wanted to talk to you is because one of the things that’s happening is a reevaluation of where people want to live. And there is a conversation around people, especially who are trans and especially the parents of trans kids as well, are looking for safe havens in this country, whether or not it be new cities or new states. But Colorado is a place where even though there are protections and you have a friendly governor and. Where you have organizations like yours, you still have to fight. And so I’m wondering if you can just tell us a little bit about what the reality is in a place like Colorado. That is to say that, of course, it’s not Alabama and it’s not, you know, pick state, Tennessee also notorious. But there are still some challenges there. So can you talk a little bit about the challenges that you face even in a place that’s friendly?

[00:09:29] You know, the Denver metro area, front range area is probably people would perceive it as the most accepting of differences. And we recognize the fact that we’re in a housing crisis. And so a lot of times when we’re talking with families, that’s the conversation that we’re having is around where do I live? What does that look like? And then many families are going more so into the Western Slope, Grand Junction, Durango or southern Colorado. In Pueblo, it’s a very different climate. It’s more rural, more isolated. As a local control state, we have school boards who are making decisions around book bands and sports bands. You know, we have folks who are pushing American birth right curriculums. It’s not Shangri-La. We do have protections, the strongest protections than any other state in the nation. And at a local level, we still have a lot of work to do. Monster Liberty is growing here. Gays against groomers are getting louder here. And so, yes, it’s a place where you are welcomed in. Also, we still have a lot of work to do to ensure that at every level, local, municipal and state level, that families that are coming here are supportive.

[00:10:45] What are you worried about in the parts of the state that are not Denver, essentially as you’ve outlined, but where there are more people going because of affordability and all of the rest of it, what are you worried about? The. Conflation between what’s happening and those more rural areas of the state that are more isolated, more conservative, and the changes in the federal government, that is to say, are you concerned that there’s going to be a change in the permission structure? Are you concerned about, for instance, the aggressiveness with which the new administration and Congress will move against Title nine and changes in Title nine for kids and how local school boards will interpret that bathroom bans? Like what are you concerned about in terms of what could happen in these places that aren’t? Denver?

[00:11:33] Yeah, I mean, even in Denver, I don’t want folks to believe that there’s not struggles here in Denver. There mostly are. And I you know, what we’re worried about is folks being emboldened. Last year, we had to stop 30 anti-trans initiatives from making it to the ballot. Right. And so these folks, they’re well-organized. They know what they’re doing. They’re well-funded. And sometimes they’re a little bit two steps ahead. Right. And so the other thing that I would say is that, you know, I actually was just on the phone with a family in Florida who was talking about moving out here. And as I was explaining, just as you were saying, Imara, that rural areas, there’s there’s a potential for aggression as potential for a number of things. Right. And what she said to me was, I live in Florida, you know, like I have been operating under some semblance of Project 20, 25 for a couple of years now. And so, yes, you’re right. And I want to make it clear that, like the differences between my rights and where I could potentially get protections are very different than what they could be here. And and so in that changed reframed my mindset, right? Like I’m living in a state where, for the most part, many of us can move freely. And as a person, I don’t want to pretend what I know what it’s like to be trans and non-binary and what that looks like. But the rights are here. And so having her say that to me, I thought, okay, so this is different. Like it’s not, you know, Texas, it’s not Oklahoma, right. But these folks are emboldened. They can be vicious at times and very harmful. But folks here do know that they can come together and to ensure that at least that the communities feel seen and heard and protected at some level within that.

[00:13:25] Is there any thing that you’ve changed in terms of your approach for the next year, let’s say, but like what’s what is the change in your approach?

[00:13:38] Yeah, I think there’s that urgency. I mean, you know, when you live in a state where you think things are okay and then you realize that the federal government could really impact Medicaid, right? And then suddenly the funding that we thought folks can have around gender affirming care they may not have.

[00:13:57] Or the ability to be able for gender affirming care, not only on the funding side, but also on the recognition of gender affirming care as a legitimate form of health care that the government would pay for regardless. Right? So there’s the funding side and there’s the regulatory side.

[00:14:11] No, absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. And and when you start to hear those things that you recognize, when we started to hear those things, you start to realize that even as a child state that things may be rough. You know what I’m saying? And that’s really hard. And trying to have those conversations with families, those are really difficult. So we’re thinking about what can approaches be, how can we be multipronged. And I think the biggest piece that we have been looking at is how do we become even more intersectional with that work, recognizing that, in all honesty, that we need to be looking at this from immigration standpoint, we need to be looking at this from a reproductive rights standpoint and around gender affirming care and thinking about how do we move together. And that has been a different change in our approach as we’re moving forward.

[00:15:04] One of the things that I also think is probably different is that not only do you have all of these challenges with regards to the federal government and how can it impact the ability of families to thrive and operate, how it impacts local government and what they can do? So that’s on the government side. But then you also have these massive shifts right now in terms of the way that corporations are thinking about supporting LGBTQ people, rights employees. And for a lot of organizations like Glenn, Colorado, that are focused on, you know, LGBTQ equality, this is also a growing area of of deep concern. How is that impacting your work or how are you thinking about that?

[00:15:52] Yeah, we’re have we’re certainly having the conversations as folks are moving away from diversity, equity, inclusion. You know, we’re just seeing right now the direction that matters going in Amazon. And we as an organization have been really thinking about what does that mean for us? What does that look like when we are dependent on sponsorships and corporations support? We had a board retreat over the weekend, and that was one of the biggest questions like, well, what happens if we lose this type of funding? And not that we haven’t been having those questions, but we don’t have the right answers for it. Right. And so everyone should know at this point that if you are not in a position where you can be authentically yourself, whether it’s around race, whether it’s around gender, you know, you can’t do your best work. There’s no way that you can do your best work for a corporation. And it’s been seen and there’s been data that has demonstrated that diversity equity inclusion urges employee resource groups. Affinity groups are best best for your corporation overall. But unfortunately, when capitalism reigns true and folks are just thinking about money for the top line folks and not the folks who are actually making sure that your corporation is running, they lose sight of this.

[00:17:09] I wonder if you’ve spoken to your governor and what what is he saying and how are you feeling about that? Positionality? And the reason why I ask is because, you know, the political environment changed for people and what they thought was once safe to say, to do to fight for is not so safe anymore. And so we’re seeing amongst some Democrats a shift. Let’s just be honest in terms of support specifically for trans people. So I’m just wondering, you know, what you’re hearing from your governor and how you’re feeling about what you’re hearing.

[00:17:45] Yeah, that’s a good question. I was actually at a meeting with the governor just not that long ago for an LGBTQ professional’s get together. And the governor, what he said is that he wholeheartedly will be working to ensure that freedoms are protected here in Colorado when it’s around bodily autonomy, reproductive rights and immigrant rights. And we have been talking to his office. They’re very much so interested in the transforming narrative work that we’re doing and figuring out what that can mean for their work. And so I think they’re open to the conversations and also firmly believe in what Coloradans believe, which is around freedom and ensuring that what we have voted in around marriage equality, around our shield state laws that they will be maintaining and honoring them. So we’re looking forward to continuing to have the conversation with Governor Polis and his folks. And with that, yes, we have been having conversations with the attorney general, Attorney General Weiser, and his team, as well as to figure out I mean, obviously, right now it’s a gray area and we really don’t know. But the conversation, you know, that they’ve we are committed to protecting trans community as well as all communities and vulnerable populations in the state.

[00:19:04] You successfully beat back a series, dozens of lies that were proposed that are anti-trans that would would have been on the ballot, which is, of course, one way to do it because, you know, if any anti-trans law is through, the legislature would have gotten through to the governor’s desk, you know, there would have been a high chance of veto. What did you glean from that tremendous success that you had that you are applying in this moment?

[00:19:33] Yeah. Well, I have to say, the process behind the title board, we didn’t even we didn’t even, you know, at that time understand the full process. And now we fully understand.

[00:19:45] The process of putting ballot initiatives on.

[00:19:47] We are putting a ballot initiatives now going through the legislature. And so I think what it allowed us to do is to be, you know, the next time if this happens and we’re anticipating that it will, these folks, these kind of conservative extremists, Moms for Liberty, gays against groomers, that we will continue to slow them down and and ensure that at the end of the day that they’re not, you know, trying to get these anti-trans initiatives on the ballot. I think the other piece of that is that what we learned is that we really need to work on public opinion. There are a lot of folks on all sides of the aisle, all sides of community who just don’t understand. And, you know, if one of those initiatives would have made it to the ballot, we don’t know what the outcome would have been and which is why we are going to be working really hard to ensure that community does have an understanding, understands of trans community and also getting to the bigger concerns. Right. Are the concerns trans kids playing sports? Are your concerns around economy, housing, food access and those pieces? And. How do we hold those folks who are supposed to be serving us accountable for that rather than putting out smokescreens? Right.

[00:21:06] It’s really interesting. Right. I mean, and I think that, like, all of those lessons are really important, but to which stick out, which I think is really important across the board, is one, learning the process because there’s so many people and organizations and individuals who are not. Sort of schooled in how all of these various democratic processes work and their various wines. So one of the most important things is to learn how the process works, including and especially at the local level like you’re talking about, but in other ways. And then secondly, really working on this piece around public opinion. And one things I think is really important is that when people say that they don’t support it, they don’t understand. And I’m talking about people who are ostensibly allies, not necessarily people who are trying to fight your destruction, but people say that they’re allies is to just begin to ask why. Yes. And to try to use that as an entry point into a broader conversation to to take some things off the board in terms of things that people have grabbed off the board to come to these often kind of erroneous conclusions about things. And I think both of those could be a big help. And as you said, like even in a place like Colorado, like you, right? That’s right. You have to do that work. And I think people think that just because you live in a blue state, that you don’t have to struggle or you don’t have to fight. And I think one of the things that you’re underscoring is that, no, even in a place like like Colorado, we have to work.

[00:22:40] We absolutely have to work. One of the points that you brought up is and I stress this so much, is that, yes, we want to pay attention to what’s going on at the federal level. Yes, we want to pay attention to our House and Senate in the state. But if you’re not paying attention to what’s going on at your school board level, your library boards, I don’t care. I see it all the time. It could be dogcatcher. You know what it is? If you’re not paying attention to what their ideologies are, what their values are, and if they’re not pro-equality projects, this harm is going to be done right. Like if the last time I remember reading it was less than 33% of the electorate votes in local politics, whether it’s city council commissioner and they know this, right, like conservative extremists know this and they’re packing our school boards. They’re packing. Right. Any ability or opportunity to be seen and heard by our communities. And that is something that we really need to be paying attention to. And, you know, the reality is, is how do we get folks to get civically engaged at the local level because we really want change and sustainable change. Like that’s going to be where it’s at, especially if we’re moving into this more of a leave it to the states to make decisions. And I can’t stress it enough. We need folks to run for school board. We need folks to run for commissioners city council, because that’s where the change is going to happen and where the most protections are, especially in these smaller communities.

[00:24:12] My last question is I’m. Wait. From everything that you’ve been processing over the last couple of months. Is the surprising thing that’s giving you hope. The thing that you didn’t expect in terms of are the way that people are showing up or something that you’ve heard or the way that people are responding. That is a shot in the arm, essentially.

[00:24:36] When I first became the executive director in Colorado, a lot of folks were saying, why do we need one? Colorado? We have everything. Marriage equality, everything’s okay. I mean, even two years ago when we were working on marriage equality, we’re moving the same sex ban from our Constitution. People thought, what are you doing? This is a waste of time. And the conversation has changed drastically to how can we support what do we need to learn? And that gives me hope. I wish it wasn’t under duress, but it gives me hope. But from a human centered perspective, our young people are just powerful. You know, to my own siblings who the older say are ages 19 to 25, they’re not having it. You know, they’re really trying to lean into like what could be are trans nonbinary, gender expansive leaders who work with one Colorado. We have to use leadership coalition. When I feel down and they’re telling us like this is what’s great, this is what’s beautiful, this is the things that we need to this is what we need to hope for. I lean into that. You know, I always say that our young people are, you know, are the keepers of our future. Our job is to lay down the groundwork for them, and they’re holding us accountable for that. And that keeps me going. That’s my caffeine. That love, that joy, that imagination, because we need that in a time like this. Like there’s no way that we can put ourselves in the fetal position and just pretend that the world is just going to fall apart. We can’t apply to this type of behavior that’s happening. You know, we need to lean into hope and joy and love.

[00:26:15] Well, Nadine, thank you so much for coming on and talking about the experiences with the new environment and blue states, as you say, a shield safe, safe state for us. I think these are really important and powerful insights. And I know that everyone listening is wishing you and everyone else that won Colorado that best as you navigate a very different and tough terrain. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on.

[00:26:43] Absolutely. It’s my pleasure. And it is an absolute honor to be on translation. I listen to you all and I’m just so proud of the work that you do and the messages that you’re getting out there. And if one Colorado can be a part of setting a blueprint of how this work can be done, then we’re going to be committed to doing that. So thank you for having me.

[00:27:02] Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That was Navy and Bridges, executive director of One Colorado.

[00:27:25] Just a quick heads up that the following interview contains references to suicidal ideation.

[00:27:31] One thing that often gets overlooked in the conversation about trans people and trans rights is South Dakota. That’s one of the many reasons why I’m looking forward to getting into this conversation with South Dakota based advocate Jack Fonda. Jack is a passionate community health worker and outreach specialist with years of experience advocating for trans health care access. He’s an important part of the team at the South Dakota Transformation Project, an organization dedicated to supporting trans people in the state and to educating communities across the Plains States region. He’s also the coordinator for the Transformation Project’s Inclusive Care Collaborative. It’s a research and education initiative aimed at increasing the number of queer affirming health providers in South Dakota. As part of his work, Jack is a devoted husband, father and football fan. Jack, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[00:28:22] Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:28:24] Jack, can you talk a little bit about how you came to believe that forming community amongst trans people in South Dakota was important?

[00:28:38] Yeah. So. Well, I’m a trans person myself, and I came out later in life growing up, like in the 80s and 90s in small town South Dakota. It’s not something that is really talked about much back in those days here in South Dakota, especially in small towns. So I never had anybody that I could see that looked the way I felt. So I never had the words to kind of express what it was that I was feeling all of those years growing up, I knew something was different. I knew I felt different. I went through a lot of mental health problems and just feeling uncomfortable all the time and never quite being able to figure that out. So I think when I was, you know, in my mid 30s, I finally went to a conference and I was able to hear a story of a trans man, and I was like, Wow, that’s me. And I finally was able to find the words to express how I had been feeling all this time. And then with that, I was like, okay, where do I go with this? Here I am in South Dakota. I’m a trans man. I have no idea what to do next and I don’t know where to go. So I started looking for resources and I found the transformation project. At that time it was very, very small. It was a 100% volunteer run. There was no paid staff. Our founder was basically running this out of her house and then kind of slowly worked up to like one tiny office that they rented out of a little church. So that’s kind of where it was when I found it. And I’m like, okay, we need more because our young people need more. And I just saw trans people struggling and just my own personal experience with struggling and trying to find that sense of community. It just made me really, really that much more passionate about giving people that space. So yeah, that’s why I feel like it’s super important and especially for our young people, right? Like they need somewhere to go. They need places that they can feel safe and that they can find that community. Being trans can feel very isolating at times. And when you live in a super, super duper red state like we do here in South Dakota, it makes it even more scary. And sometimes you feel like you’re the only one. Like maybe I’m the only trans person that lives here and that can be really detrimental to your mental health and it can really take a toll on you. So I think community is crucial for every human being. It’s just a little bit harder to find it when you’re either part of the queer community or you’re trans.

[00:30:55] One of the things I think is really important about the example that you all give around providing space and bringing people together for its own sake. Is the fact that South Dakota is one of the places that’s fairly hostile to trans people, especially through the governor of the state, Kristi Noem. I’m wondering how the overall atmosphere that you all have in the state is a contributing factor for the need for people to come together?

[00:31:36] Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I’ve done a lot of traveling, fortunately, So I’ve been able to go to places that just seem so foreign. After living in South Dakota as a trans person and you go to other places in the in the world or even in the country, and you just see people being able to just be themselves and you just, you know, just the fact of, you know, there’s so many other places where you can just walk down the street and see pride, flags everywhere and people holding hands and people dressing the way they want to. And we don’t have that freedom here necessarily. I mean, obviously, you can do it, but you’re still going to be looked at, right? People are still going to stare at you. You’re not going to it’s not as common to walk down the streets here in South Dakota and see pride, flags everywhere or really feel that sense of community. Right. Like people in South Dakota like to say, well, this is a great place to live because it’s that small town America, right? Everybody’s your neighbor. Everybody’s your friend. That’s only true if you look the way they want you to look. And if you fit the boxes that they want you to fit in. Yes, we’re in the Midwest and that’s great. And it’s friendly here. And everybody is your neighbor. But that’s not the case for everybody. I live in a small town. Population is about 2500 people. So everybody does know who I am. And that gives me the opposite of what a community is supposed to feel like. Right? I have the opposite of that. So I don’t have that sense of community. I don’t have that. If my house is on fire, everybody’s going to come and help me put it out. I don’t have that. I have a small group of people, right, that I that are my core group. But it’s not the same as, you know, my cisgender, straight heterosexual neighbors. It’s not the same experience. And that’s just the reality of it. And then you add politicians to that that are telling the state of South Dakota that we shouldn’t be here and we don’t belong here, and what we’re doing is wrong. And that just adds another layer of safety. Like I don’t think people understand how detrimental that is to have public figures and political leaders in your state that are spewing things like this. And it just fuels the fire of these people who already don’t understand us and already think that we don’t belong here and they already think we should be othered. I think that does make a big difference just because of the atmosphere here.

[00:33:48] But despite that, and I think that this is the hope of what you’re doing, you all do come together and have found space. Despite that difficulty. And in that, I think that there is an example for trans communities all across the country in terms of what. Is ahead, endearing degrees, but is ahead for trans people. Can you talk about examples or things that people have told you about why coming together in a state like South Dakota matters? Like, is there an anecdote or a story that stands out for you, for people saying why it matters?

[00:34:38] We just opened the first ever LGBTQ Plus center in South Dakota. It’s been open for a year now. And let me tell you, like if you think about going your whole life as like a teenager or a young person and never being able to dress the way you want to dress, not being able to wear your hair the way you want to wear your hair, If you want to wear makeup that day, you’re told no. We have kids here that get to come here for four hours every week and they get to do that. It makes me emotional because I see these kids coming here every week. And, you know, we’ve had people donate makeup wipes because these kids can wear makeup for four hours, but then they have to take it off before their parents come to pick them up. So for four hours a week, they get to be themselves and that’s it. But that four hours a week is keeping them alive. Right. And I don’t think people really understand that. I mean, queer people, we are resilient, if nothing else. And when we come together as a community, we do it right and we do it strong and we lift each other up and we give each other the space to be who we need to be and to be your authentic self. And everybody should have the opportunity to do that, right? I wish these kiddos could do it every day, but they can’t. So I’m just really, really thankful that they have the space to do it here. But there are kids that say that is keeping them alive. Just just four hours a week is all they need to keep them alive. I’ve also just had personal meetings with clients that I work with that come to me looking for resources. One really, really powerful story for me, I met with a trans woman who was in and out of mental health facilities she lived with at home with her parents. She was an adult. She just could not figure out how to live in this state and in this world. As a trans person, she just was feeling so lost and it was affecting her mental health so bad that she didn’t want to be here anymore. She reached out and said, Can I meet with you? And we did this. We did. We set up meetings for two months and she would cancel. She would cancel. She would cancel. And then finally she took that step to meet me. Right. And that was a big step for her. Just like I’m going to go outside of my house, I’m going public. I’m going to be with this person I’ve never met before. Right. We meet we have a great conversation. I don’t hear or see from her in probably three months, three months later, I’m at a rally that I’m speaking at and she finds me. She’s in the crowd and she finds me afterwards. And she has completely transformed in and she’s dressing as a woman now. She’s wearing makeup. Her hair is gorgeous. She’s full of confidence and her face is all lit up. And she came up to me and said, thank you. She said, just that one meeting with you was enough for me to give me the strength and the courage to know that I can do this and then I can do it and whatever way works for me. And there’s no right or wrong way for me to be trans. I can just be myself. And she said, That’s because of you taking the time to meet with me. And I. I was floored. Right. Like I met with you for an hour. We had coffee. We just shared space for an hour and talked about what it means to be trans in South Dakota. And there’s a lot of people who are just so scared to do it. And she just needed someone to to believe in her and to give her that courage and that strength. And I don’t always get to see that right. Like, I usually see people in their dark times when they’re really down and they’re really struggling. So to get to see some of those experiences come full circle, that’s what keeps me going. That’s what keeps me focused and keeps me energized to keep doing what I’m doing every day.

[00:38:03] That’s so powerful and I think is a really good reminder of just how important analog, right, Like old school face to face contact is, because what you just said is that face to face contact for four hours or an hour has been enough to keep people going and to keep people on the path to becoming themselves, regardless of all of the other time that they’re not able to be themselves. And I just think about how when online spaces are becoming more hostile for trans people will increasingly be closed to trans people in terms of being themselves. And the power of coming together face to face just can’t be underestimated. And I think one of the things that you’re doing is showing that that’s a way for us to essentially survive. Because I just think about if I’m online scrolling for an hour, it doesn’t have that impact on me. Right. But what you’re saying is that, like, if I am sitting across from you and I am looking you in your eyes and I’m essentially affirming you that that can be really important. And I just think that that’s something that people have forgotten. And your program is reminding us that that’s really key here.

[00:39:29] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Everybody needs to feel affirmed. And no matter whatever that means for you, right? Whoever you are, trans or anything else. Right. We need we need to be able to find someone that we can connect with. And we need to be able to find that space that we can be ourselves and we can feel like, okay, you get me and you see me, right? Like, that’s what we all want. We just want to be seen and heard and we want to know that our lives are valid no matter what that means, right?

[00:39:55] Absolutely. No, that’s absolutely right. When you look across the country, what do you think about how you all have formed a center and meet face to face despite living in a state which can be very hostile for trans people? What are the lessons that you would share out to people in cities and states which may not have been hostile before, which may have felt safer, but which increasingly don’t? What are some of the learnings that you can share or insights that you would share with them about what you do and how people can keep going despite how tough it’s been?

[00:40:41] Yeah. So first of all, just hang in there, right? Like stay strong. You got this. You’re going to get through it. It is hard. It’s a learning experience. It’s not easy. Find your people. You know, the allies are there and we do need our allies. We need them now more than we ever have before. Right. We need them to stand up and be on this path with us and fight with us. As far as opening a center or trying to figure out how to how to maybe go forward in a time that maybe feels different than it did before, or maybe it was a really safe space before and now it’s not. And that can feel really scary for a lot of people who have never been in that situation before. For us, that is just that’s just life every day as a trans person in South Dakota, unfortunately. So, you know, we are very diligent as far as safety. We can’t just have the door unlocked at our center for anybody to walk in and out like we have to have it locked 24 seven. We have been threatened before. I’m sure it won’t be the last time. It definitely wasn’t the first. But we know there’s people that don’t want us here. So. So we have to keep everybody safe, right? We have to keep ourselves safe. We have to keep our people safe that are coming here to utilize the space. But just I don’t want people to be scared. I don’t want you to be scared, but I want you to keep yourself safe. Right. That’s what I’ve been telling my clients now that are like, what do we do, Jack? What do I do? I’m really scared. I’m really. Do I need to get out of here or do I need to leave? Right. And that’s not an option for everybody. It’s not an option for everybody to flee their state and go somewhere that might be safer. And what state is safer right now? Right. Like we don’t even that’s that might not even be a real thing going forward for the next four years. There might not be a state that’s safe or quote unquote, right. I think bottom line, we need more allies to step up and help us. We need people to fight with us. If you think about how much money and how much support these negative organizations have compared to the other side, which is us, they have a lot more than we have. Unfortunately, they’re trying to force us out of existence. Right? They don’t want us to exist here. So stay strong. Find your allies, find your community, and stay safe. But don’t be scared. Just be safe.

[00:42:57] And for you and your organization, how are you all planning to navigate this? More difficult environment. I mean, I think one of the things that you’re saying is, look, we are here, we’ve been here. And so we have a sense of how to do this. So, you know, take some notes.

[00:43:17] But it’s so bizarre. So just a little anecdote here that I want to share. So we we did a gender identity summit for a couple like two years in a row. And then the last time we did it, it was we had a lot of backlash. Right. And we had it was it was scary. So basically, it was just a really small conference. We had like a path for mental health providers and a path for health care providers so they could go in to separate rooms. There was different leaders that were talking about the trans experience, right? How to provide good mental health care, how to provide good health care, basically. Well, the word got out on where we were holding this conference. Right? We had tried to keep it safe and we tried to keep it like we only sent the location after you had paid your entrance fee to kind of attend the conference. Right. For safety purposes. Well, it got out some organization put it online that we were there and they were making a lot of really scary threats and things online. And then a protester decided to show up. One one singular protest showed up outside holding a sign and across and kind of just spewing all these things. Right. So somebody came out and said and some of this person was not queer, not trans, and said, Hey, Jack, I think I’m going to walk you to your car because this is really dangerous. There’s one protester outside. And I was like. That’s how I feel every day I walk outside. This is not different for me to have somebody who might want to hurt me outside, right? So that it’s like we can joke about it, but it’s not funny, right? Like, that’s just transpeople feel that way every day. Like you, you always feel scared when you walk outside or when you try to go to the bathroom where you like. I was like, whatever. See, every day, like this one dude out here, like, I don’t know. I do this every day that I leave my house. So, yeah, I think it’s weird to be like, okay, let’s let’s teach other states now how to kind of deal with things being crappy and scary and dangerous. Like, I hate that we’re the leaders in those things, you know?

[00:45:11] Yeah, but, you know, it is what it is. I think it sounds like what you’re basically saying, though, is that like, you feel ready for this moment in a way and that like, you feel fairly prepared and that the challenges that you all have faced, where you have faced them, have made you feel like you’re ready to face and to navigate whatever is coming up with a sense that. Transpeople are still going to exist.

[00:45:39] Period. We are not going anywhere. We are valid human beings that are here and we’re not leaving. So.

[00:45:46] Well, I think that that’s as good a place to put a period on this conversation. I want to thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience, for the bravery that you have shown in a hostile place for trans people and giving everyone the example of the ways that trans people can come together, can survive and thrive even in really, really tough conditions. Thank you so much. And just sending you all the best. On behalf of everyone listening to you, to your organization, and to the people that you serve. Thank you so much.

[00:46:27] Thank you, too. Thank you for highlighting us. I appreciate it.

[00:46:30] 100%. That was South Dakota trans leader and community health worker Jack Fonda. Thank you so much for joining me on the Twins podcast. Now, listen all the way through to the end of the show for something extra. If you like what you heard, make sure to go. Leave a comment on Spotify or a five star review. Five songs on Apple Podcasts. You might just hear me read them out on the show. The transition podcast is produced by TransLash Media. The translation team includes Oliver-Ash Klein and Aubrey. Calloway. Xander Adams is our senior sound engineer and a contributing producer. This show gets to your ears with the help of our social media team, including Morgan Asprey. The music you heard was composed by Ben Draghi and also courtesy of Zach Records. The transition podcast is made possible by the support of foundations and listeners like you. So what am I looking forward to? Well, next week, of course, begins Black History Month. Yay! And I think Black History Month is so important, but it’s going to be even more vital and more lit during this particular moment, especially when we’re being told that any conversation around race or racial equality or the history of the United States is, you know, now frowned upon. So it will be really important to make our voices heard and to uplift stories during Black History Month, especially black trans stories. So super excited about that. And let’s make this first Black History month of the second Trump administration informative and lit one.