Emilia Peréz Oscars Controversy

Speaker 1 [00:00:09] Hey fam, it’s me Imara. Welcome to the TransLash podcast, a show where we tell trans stories to save trans lives. But we’re deep into awards season, and it’s been a complicated year for trans film. Karla Sofía Gascón made history as the first trans actress nominated for an Oscar for her role in Emilia Pérez, but the film and the actress herself have created quite a firestorm of controversy. But we’ve also seen some exciting developments in the world of trans film and filmmaking over the past year, from experimental cinema like I Saw the TV Glow and The People’s Joker to the heartwarming documentary Will and Harper. So I wanted to talk with someone who’s watched all of this, and who has some really good insights and opinions on the good, the bad, and the ugly of trans film right now informed by their own experience. So I’m joined by filmmaker and critic Drew Burnett Gregory, who shares which films she’s been loving and which films she didn’t love quite so much.

Speaker 2 [00:01:12] I do just want to underline that, like I want work that is challenging. I want work where trans people do things that we don’t approve of, whether that’s like I sex with the wrong person and we’re like, I don’t know, don’t do that. Or like is fully murdering someone.

Speaker 1 [00:01:27] But before we get to that cinematic conversation, let’s start out, as always, with some trans joy.

Speaker 1 [00:01:49] Art is one of the most powerful vehicles for reflecting on who we are and what we want to become, and that is certainly true for New Mexico based artist Lauren Snyder. After coming out as a trans woman at the age of 66. Lauren’s creative practice blossomed. She’s shown her work in galleries across the country and even self-published a book of her paintings. That’s not all. Lauren donates 100% of the proceeds from her art sales to Girls Inc, a leadership program for girls. Here’s Lauren to tell us more about her creative journey.

Speaker 3 [00:02:23] My initial painting was doing mostly abstract work, but I did some landscapes. I never did figurative work. As soon as I started transitioning, I started painting women’s faces and it became my passion doing these kind of bizarre women’s faces. And I told people, the reason I paint women’s faces is because I paint my face every day with makeup. And in a way, all these women are really me. So that’s what I do now. I make art and I play pickleball. That’s that’s kind of the focus of my life is art and pickleball. Pickleball keeps me alive. Art keeps my mind working in a creative way.

Speaker 1 [00:03:10] Lauren Snyder, you are trans, Joy, and thanks so much to the listener here that the listener like you who nominated Lauren, do you know someone like her who embodies trans joy? Well, just send us an email at TransLash, underscore podcast@translash.org and make sure to include their name, contact information, and why you think they should get a shout out in a future trans Joy segment. And with that, let’s get into my conversation with Tripp. It’s hard to think of a better person to unpack everything that’s going on in the world of trans cinema than writer and filmmaker. Drew Burnett Gregory. Based in Brooklyn, drew is one of the sharpest minds on this topic. She’s also a senior editor at Auto Straddle, where she writes about film and a variety of other topics ranging from dating to politics. Her piece, entitled Emilia Pérez is the most unique sexist nonsense you’ll ever see. Put her squarely in the middle of the conversation around this controversial movie. You can find more of Drew’s writing and cosmopolitan UK. Refinery29. Them and not LA. Her outstanding work landed her the title Outfest Screenwriting Lab Notable Writer in 2022. She was also a 2023 Lambda Literary Screenwriting Fellow. Drew, thanks so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2 [00:04:38] Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 [00:04:40] First of all, let’s just dive right into Emilia Pérez. For those who haven’t watched it. Tell us what the film is about. Ostensibly.

Speaker 2 [00:04:50] Yeah. It is about a cartel leader in Mexico who wants to transition and enlists the help of a lawyer to do it. Which is already in that plot description. We’re starting to get some of the first question marks. It is also a musical goes around the globe and a few scenes. It is. Yeah, it is a transition story.

Speaker 1 [00:05:22] So it has big names attached to it, which is always a downer. Also is huge because of the nomination of Karla Sofía Gascón for numerous awards, including, of course, an Oscar, and it’s gotten a momentum that no other trans story really has in terms of the talent that it’s attracted and the way that it’s doing during awards season. I’m wondering if you can just tell us a little bit more about what’s going on here with regards to the transition story. So there’s the cartel Leader wish to transition because they are trans, or do they wish to transition for other reasons?

Speaker 2 [00:06:03] So this is interesting because this is actually something that change throughout the process of the writing of the film and throughout production. It’s unclear exactly what the timeline was, but Karla Sofía Gascón once brought on corrected writer director Jack Odegaard about sort of the framing of it and that the cartel leader transition just to escape, and she pushed him to make it like truer to who Amelia is as a person and, and sort of inherent to her. But I think something we see a lot when we have instances of cis, in this case, straight writer director telling a trans story, and then a trans actor comes on and makes it more authentic, if that’s the word we want to use. The interests of the filmmaker remain right and the bones of the piece remain. So there’s some cosmetic changes to make it, you know, less offensive, but it’s not more interesting, and it’s not more grounded often because sort of the core of the story remains. So it is like very explicit that, like, she is trans, she wants to transition. It does also allow her to sort of escape and start a new life.

Speaker 1 [00:07:25] So tell us about why you think the film is problematic and why, even with this pushback from Karla Sofía Gascón, it still has, as you say, a very heavy cis overlay on trans people in the trans experience.

Speaker 2 [00:07:43] Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting because it’s it’s almost obvious in the ways in which like, it is problematic, right? Like it’s, you know, I think in my like, review. Like I wrote like a list of things like it hits every trope you can imagine from transitioning as this sort of framed as a death to having like a trans woman who’s an evil killer, to having her ruin her family by transitioning the idea that a trans woman exists in this space of like neither male nor female, or both male and female. It hits all of these things. And the thing that I keep trying to like, underline, though, when I talk about it, is that none of those things are inherently wrong in the sense that I think anything can be done well when told through the right perspective and with enough nuance. And so the issue, for me at least, is not, oh, it does these things and these things are problematic. My issue is like it does these things in ways that aren’t interesting, in ways that don’t feel deep or connected to a true trans experience, at least in my opinion. And so it ends up just like not being a particularly interesting film or really doing right by the character. I would love to have more trans characters who are villainous, not in a way of silence of the lambs. And this sort of trope that is, you know, has caused a lot of harm over the years, but in ways that are interesting and challenging, and this film just doesn’t quite do that. And so it’s disappointing as well as being like, problematic.

Speaker 1 [00:09:33] Yeah, I mean, I think that when it comes to tropes, you can have elements of one as a part of a story, because that may be true contextually, but when you have them all together, you know, as we saw from disclosure, right, that’s actually furthering and advancing transfer of types and that you can’t do well, right. If you are sort of embracing them all at the same time. And I think the scene that I saw was the surgery scene, you know, where they’re singing about gender affirming surgery and are making light of it. You know, like it’s nothing. It’s not a big deal. It doesn’t kind of matter. And you just, you know, very graphic about cutting body parts and made it into a joke, right? When people already think that being trans is a joke. And so then you have something that is, you know, very personal, very intimate, very much a part of the transition story of people where, you know, people spend years thinking about it and all the things have to go through, and they turn it into a joke, you know?

Speaker 2 [00:10:30] Yeah. And that’s the campy as part of the movie, because I could see a world where a trans filmmaker, you know, turns surgery into this, like Busby Berkeley style musical number. And it’s funny and challenging and uncomfortable and pushing boundaries in ways that are interesting. And the thing is, is that it’s not doing those things. So then you’re just left with you’re just left with a movie where you’re like, oh, so you’re just doing what? I don’t know, South Park did ten, 20 years ago, you know, it’s like it’s not as groundbreaking as they think.

Speaker 1 [00:11:05] So if the content is trophy, it’s through assessed lens, which you have argued in your piece. What’s redeeming about it?

Speaker 2 [00:11:17] That’s a great question.

Speaker 1 [00:11:18] I if the answer is nothing, that’s fine. But I’m just.

Speaker 2 [00:11:21] Curious. I don’t necessarily think that the answer is nothing, because I think over the last ten years or so, a lot of trans film, or at least films with trans people that have made it into either mainstream, mainstream or like an indie mainstream, has been sort of austere. And there’s been like a safe feeling to it because there’s an interest in our stories. But a lot of trans filmmakers aren’t the ones being trusted to tell those stories, or if they are, only some of our stories are being uplifted. And there there are exceptions to this, and there are movies that have been made that I think are really interesting, or by trans people that are interesting and have broken out. But for the most part, I think the narratives that we’ve had have been really like respectful and where that speaks to the progress that we’ve made or that we were making before I had this sort of backlash that we’re in right now. But isn’t that exciting to watch for cis people or trans people? And so I think what this movie offered or at least offered a lot of people and some trans people, I know, trans people who are defenders of it. And that’s the great thing about art. But I think it it felt like, oh, this is taking risks and this is allowing a trans character to to be a villain at times to make choices that aren’t totally perfect and respectable. And I think people trans ancestors, really want that and are tired of sort of having a story where it’s just like a really nice trans person or a trans person who just, like, has a heart of gold and we don’t see anything wrong with them where they help us, this person along their journey or whatever it is that they’re supposed to do before dying tragically or whatever. And so it’s like, I think that is what people are being drawn to. And anytime you have this mix of genres, it’s a musical. It’s like a gangster movie. It’s a romance. I think people are excited by that, by what feels original. And then it it makes it more confusing when certain things are Trumpy and not original. And you’re like, so you could imagine putting all these genres together and you could imagine this musical number, but you couldn’t imagine, like learning anything real about trans people or real about Mexican people like you instead? You just. The only thing you’re taking risks on is genre. You’re not taking risks on. I don’t know people.

Speaker 1 [00:14:00] Right? I mean, because that’s also the parallel criticism, right? Is that not only is it, you know, stereotyping trans people and we have a lot of stereotypes that are advance. So from an audience member perspective, you don’t really learn anything new. Or Katy, did you say it’s insights around trans people? The same is also true in terms of what people are saying with regards to, as you just touched upon, its portrayal of Mexicans?

Speaker 2 [00:14:23] Yeah. I mean, one of the first things that I saw about the movie when it came out of con and I was not con excited at the Toronto Film Festival several months later, but one of the first positive things I saw about it was like comparing it to Sicario, which is a movie about cartels, and and it was comparing it in a positive way. And it’s like we don’t have time to get into to a whole other conversation about about Sicario and Taylor Sheridan, but it’s like, that’s also not a film that I think is how do I say, like being very thoughtful in its representation. And I think the ways in which it is trophy and offensive towards Mexico is sort of so expected in mainstream media that it I don’t know, I think a lot of people didn’t, or at least a lot of people who aren’t Mexican didn’t even like think twice about it. They were just like, yeah, this is this is the story. This is Mexico. This is like a cartel movie. And there’s not even any like, thought from a lot of people about that.

Speaker 1 [00:15:24] So with all of those things going on, why do you think it’s so fetid? Why is it so celebrated? And Hollywood, why are they sitting up fireworks?

Speaker 2 [00:15:35] And, you know, we see this every few years or in some ways every year. But, you know, you have something like Green Book, you have something like, I mean, Danish Girl for another trans movie. I mean, the good news is that people want stories about people who are different. It’s not just from a place of representation, right? It’s not just from a place of people wanting stories about themselves and about their own communities.

Speaker 1 [00:15:59] It’s curiosity.

Speaker 2 [00:16:00] People in general want, yeah, want stories about all sorts of different experiences, all different places, all different identities. But also the best of that work is challenging. And I think a lot of people, a lot of people in the Hollywood establishment don’t want to be challenged. And so oftentimes what you get is work that appears to be progressive and has narratives that can be shaped by a PR machine to make them progressive, but they’re not actually progressive, and they’re not actually challenging, and they’re not actually making anyone question their view of trans people or their view of Mexico. And instead they’re able to just be like, look at us. We’re the good liberals celebrating this movie in Trump’s America about trans people and about Mexico. And it’s like, yes, but the movie believes many of the same things as Republicans and conservatives. Yeah. No viewpoints.

Speaker 1 [00:16:54] Right? Right, right. Like at the core, it’s operating from the same set of beliefs. It’s just how people are responding to those same set of beliefs that are reinforced. And yeah. Green book, as you say, had the very similar controversy around, you know, a black person who was at the top of their field, who had a white driver in them driving through the South and having to only stop at certain places. But in that story ended up being about the white driver, right? Not about like. So yeah, I think that that’s right. One of the things that I just keep thinking about is there was so much buzz about Monica, which is a very different story. Right. With trace, the set from last year, a trans woman going back home during, you know, the middle of a family difficulty and having to negotiate that. And that is so relate. I think that’s so relatable. There’s so many people that I know and, you know, received a standing ovation in Venice. And there was really this sense that, like, Monica essentially was going to be the Emilia Pérez kind of breakthrough trans film, where the trans actor would be nominated for all of these various awards and maybe even win. What’s your thoughts about the compare and contrast between these films, and why Monica didn’t crest in the way that Emilia Pérez is?

Speaker 2 [00:18:12] Yeah, well, I should say that I was the director’s assistant on Monica and like I said, trace really well. And so I am biased in that way. But I do have a lot of thoughts about this because I think, please, I think there are two things happening here. One, I think there’s just the fact that, like Monica is a very quiet film. You know, Emilia Pérez and Monica are both arthouse in a certain way, but Emilia Pérez is. I don’t know how to say this without sounding arrogant, but like.

Speaker 1 [00:18:39] Go for it. I mean, Emilia.

Speaker 2 [00:18:41] Pérez is kind of like arthouse. 101. Like, it’s just it’s it’s not a difficult film despite being longer and despite having all these different elements at play, like there are shootouts, there’s a lot of going on. So it’s just it’s like it’s not a difficult film to sit through unless you’re, like, offended by it. But it’s, you know, Monica’s like a bit more painful, a little bit quieter. It has some tropes and that it’s, you know, trans person visiting his family after years away like, that is a story we’ve seen a lot. But it it avoids. And something that we talked about on set a lot like it where like how to avoid certain tropes and certain things that cis people eat up. But like trace and I were on that set being like, actually, Monica doesn’t need to be ten names. And the six people were like, but isn’t that so exciting? And they’re like, no, it’s boring. And so then, you know, to their credit, they listen. And so like, you avoid some of these things that I think will have, like create little lights in the brains of people that are so exciting and it doesn’t have those things. Another thing that I’ve been observing over the years is that I think Hollywood and, you know, Hollywood adjacent because, you know, Perez is a French movie, but is Hollywood really likes to discover people who have marginalized identities? And I think what we’ve seen a lot over the years is that trans actors get a moment when they are doing their first project or their first big project. Most of the time, you know, pretty much everyone on pose had been working either in theater or in another field or whatever for a while. But like that was the first thing where cis people, white people were like, noticing that Hollywood really likes to discover because they get to star power over someone. So Karla Sofía Gascón has been working in the industry for years and years and years. But, you know, since transitioning hadn’t had this sort of like star making moment, and trace had that on transparent. And I think once an actor just becomes they’re no longer a trans actor, they’re traceless that they’re Laverne Cox. I think even people who continue to work and get roles, they’re not getting I mean, I’m happy that like, Laverne Cox has a new show out right now, but like, that took a long time. Like, like she’s been the most, like, famous trans woman actor for a long time. And her filmography should just, like, look different than it does. And so I think when you have someone like trace, the perception is that it’s harder to control that person than when someone is new and is just sort of trans actor or first trans actor to X, y, z, as opposed to, oh, it’s traceless that this actor who is very talented and we respect, I think Netflix has seen. Opposite of what can happen with that where you have Karla Sofía Gascón not only having like, tweeted all of these awful things over the recent years, but isn’t playing by the like PR rulebook where Netflix and any sort of big company like that has the ability to make even the most like, horrific comments go away. I mean, Mel Gibson had a movie come out this month, so like, it’s Hollywood is very good at actually not being ethical in that way. But Karla Sofía Gascón not being PR trained in the same way as just been like making statement after statement after statement and dug a bigger hole for herself. And that’s also what happens when someone isn’t like a seasoned, you know, a stablished actor in the industry. So I think that’s the flip side of that. But I think it’s really frustrating how often. Yeah, trans films are like, we discovered this actor or trans TV shows are like, this person who’s only been a model is now an actor. And like, that’s it’s not it’s not an insult. Any of those people. It’s just like, okay, after that trans model who’s now acting is discovered, like, are they going to get the roles that they deserve? And often times the answer is no. And so I think it manifested the same way with awards where the story wasn’t as good for the awards bodies to let trace be this person.

Speaker 1 [00:23:08] So, you know, you said that it was a quieter film. It was more in the house. But I’m also wondering if it’s also about the difference in the characters. You know, like the way that Monica knew herself and was self-possessed in a certain way, you know, and presented a groundedness. Right.

Speaker 2 [00:23:28] I mean, it’s it’s not a transition story. So that’s also.

Speaker 1 [00:23:31] That’s right. Yeah. Exactly. Right. To me, it’s a family story. It’s a coming home story. I know people who recently went back home to their families for the first time in a long time, like it’s this is not an uncommon, you know, thing that happens. And so it felt real to me, right, in a certain way. And so I’m wondering if from from what you’re saying, like this character of Monica Wright being, as you say, it’s not a transition story is grounded is going back through this. And really what comes through is like the humanity of the person, right, is a different cosign than a person who is, you know, essentially stereotypical in all of these ways. Going back to what you were saying.

Speaker 2 [00:24:13] Yeah. And the other thing is, even though both films are named after the trans character, Emilia Pérez is not the protagonist of Emilia Pérez. Like Zoe Saldana, his character is the protagonist, and the fact that she’s in supporting and Karla Sofía Gascón is in lead is just a PR choice because it’s a it was a really crowded year for the Best Actress category, and Netflix made the call that Zoe Saldana would have a better chance of winning and supporting. So like I think that’s also the thing is that if Monica had been more of Patricia Clarkson’s movie, if it had been about a mother who’s trans daughter comes home and wow, Tracy could have gotten a supporting noms, or they could have done category for odd and also done it this way. But like if it had been Patricia Clarkson’s movie, I think it would have been a different narrative. And, you know, I, I do, I do think like, you know, what I was saying about Monica being a little bit slower and quieter is true, but I think we’ve seen over especially recent years that what is like a quote unquote Oscar movie is decided by the studios anytime people are like, oh, well, that movie’s like a little too boring to get nominations. And it’s like, I thought the Oscars like when it’s boring or like, oh, that’s that movie’s a little too, like, exciting too. It’s like it’s sort of this, this thing where a movie only becomes an Oscar frontrunner because the right studio picks it up and decides that that’s what’s going to happen. So if one of the bigger studios had picked up Monica and had the money to put behind that campaign, it would have at least gotten acting nominations, I think for sure. But I mean, we’ve seen that. It’s not just Monica. Like we saw that with a Fantastic Woman got foreign language nod, but the actor didn’t get anything. Tangerine. There was like, talk of like, oh.

Speaker 1 [00:26:09] Yeah, Tangerine was great.

Speaker 2 [00:26:10] Even even putting aside, because I saw some people this year being like, well, what about like these other Transformers that came out this year? Like I saw the TV glow or whatever. And it’s like, I understand that Hollywood is not in a place where they’re going to be like rewarding trans filmmakers, like movies that are trans made by a trans person. Like they’re not there yet, I guess, but like Monica was. So I don’t see this as a criticism like, but it was so. Tracy is the only trans person in it, right? Like it it has it has it people for cis audiences to grab on to, even though it doesn’t fall into all of these tropes, it’s still it still feels like a very safe film, for it’s directed by a man like it could have easily fitting into one of these categories, and they just decided for it not to. You know that ultimately that’s what it is.

Speaker 1 [00:27:04] What’s interesting is how you’re giving us a lot of insight into the politics behind the decision about which films get pushed forward, who gets pushed forward, and at the the core of it. And I think that this misses people all the time, is that at its core, Hollywood is really conservative, right? And maybe not right wing, but I mean conservative in terms of like they believe that audiences want basically what they’ve gotten before in terms of stories and archetypes, that they believe that even if there is greater representation, the representation always has to, in a certain way, reaffirm basic ideas and tenets of American story about who’s the hero, who’s the villain, who matters, who doesn’t, who gets foregrounded, who gets back on it, like, and all of that. You know, I think about conversations going back for a while around glory. We had all these amazing black actors, but a lot of the conversation, the story focused on Matthew Broderick and this white man. When you have like, Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington, literally the list goes on, like all future Oscar winners, right? And so that that plays into the background of how change stories are shaped and get uplifted. Is that like you’re essentially in a conservative environment that wants to hold fast essentially to a lot of stereotypes about who we are?

Speaker 2 [00:28:26] Yeah. I mean, I would go as far as to say that Hollywood is right wing like they might label themselves as liberal, but just look at the way that police and military are portrayed on screen. Like, I think the probably the best way that a trans movie could get an Oscar is like making a trans cop. You know, like, I feel like that’s that is how Hollywood functions and has functioned really since its origin. And at the same time, for the past, you know, century and a quarter, there’s stuff that sneaks through. There’s either stuff that sneaks through in independent spaces. Outside of Hollywood, I mean, there’s a whole world of a film and not just like, you know, a relatively mainstream French movie that’s supposed to be about Mexico. But like all over the world and in smaller film industries, there’s there’s work being made. And also occasionally Hollywood lets stuff sneak through because what happens is, you know, if if a trans actor is able to win an Oscar for a movie that’s about as this person, then that Oscar, even though it’s just political, that Oscar does help that actor then get other projects made. And so it’s unfortunate, but that’s why awards do still matter. I don’t think maybe some of the the ways in which we talk about awards as either judgment of like the best art of the year or the way we talk about awards is like a sporting event that people are betting on. I don’t know, sign of either of those things matter or helpful. But having these awards from these major voting bodies like does help other work get made. And oftentimes that’s the work that’s really interesting is like, oh, this person was celebrated for this film. That is just okay. But now because of that, they’re able to like take this risk. And and I think it’s important to remember that stuff is always getting made. It’s just frustrating when the trans movie that’s going to be at the Oscars is this one, and the trans movie that is being blasted into people’s homes, and that even not just as people, but even like trans people who aren’t super clued into the film world. Open Netflix and like this is what they see. And so I think it’s important to both underline that this isn’t the only work that’s being made, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not frustrating that this is the work that’s being celebrated.

Speaker 1 [00:30:55] Let’s go to the controversy around the tweets, because that’s been really prominent lately and kind of overshadowed a lot of the run up to the Oscars, you know, a series of of racist tweets that Karla Sofía Gascón had sent out years ago. As you say, the response to them by her wasn’t, you know, did not allay the concerns that people had about the revelation about these tweets that were anti-black and other things. And a part of the controversy is the way in which people like Zoe Saldana have rushed to defend Karla Sofía Gascón. What is this entire affair. Tell us about Hollywood and how do you think it’s influenced the Oscars conversation and the possibility that she could win?

Speaker 2 [00:31:44] I think that it shows the limited ways in which we can call it Hollywood. We can call it the surface world. The mainstream world views trans people, because I think the assumption was that because the narrative that Netflix and the film world was crafting was this movie has a trans actress and it’s progressive. And so the trans actress is progressive because trans people are progressive, or trans people are lying and trying to sneak into bathrooms. Right? It’s this sort of like all evil are all good view of, I mean, any sort of marginalized group. It’s just like sort of a classic, a classic view. I mean, even cis, straight white women are still still experienced this sort of like categorization. So I think the ways in which a company like Netflix would absolutely have done their due diligence for most actors who maybe they weren’t familiar with or hadn’t worked with before. I think they just assumed like, oh, this is good person. Like, this is this is a person who we just are, like, able to uplift as the sign that we are a progressive company. Even though, like, Netflix has a real spotty record with trans storytelling and trans representation. And so then you end up with this coming out as late as it did in the process. And it just it’s really disappointing. I mean, it it has completely shifted the narrative around the movies. So I’m no longer like, as concerned about Emilia Pérez winning Best Picture over other movies I deem more worthwhile. But that trade off is not worth this prominent trans face and voice in this moment. Having said all these things and being both hateful and kind of a clown, you know, like being framed in this way, where you because of how awful all the things that she said were and also how recent they were, like, you know, oftentimes when tweets are dug up, people are like, I was just a young 25 year old and you’re like 25. You should have known better by 25. But this is like you should have known better by 50. And so there’s really no, you know, like there’s no coming back from this. I don’t begrudge anyone for like, making fun of her for sort of like the whole internet turning on her in this way that she deserves. But it also sucks because there aren’t any other trans people in the Oscar conversation. Right? And so even in that movie, I don’t think that she had a chance at winning in the first place. Like her, getting a nomination at all speaks to how much power Netflix has. This is a really crowded year. Netflix had Maria, and if these tweets they come out months earlier, they just would have shifted their money to getting Angelina Jolie into that last spot, which like, you know, in the scheme of things, it’s not that big of a deal. But unless you’re Angelina Jolie but like, it’s that’s what they would have done. And so I don’t think that she would have won in the first place. But I do think it means that Emilia Pérez isn’t going to win Best Picture. And I do think it makes Zoe Saldana, who is like a lock, to win her category. And it’s it’s a difficult situation that she’s in, for sure, but she’s sort of just trying to be like, I believe in these things and not really trying to engage too much with Karla Sofía Gascón, and I don’t know if there’s a proper way to handle this situation, but also it’s it’s a little bit like, I don’t know, I mean, it’s it’s wild to me that people read this script and didn’t see the issues about trans people about Mexico before. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think, yes, there there’s a explicitness to the tweets that Karla Sofía Gascón did to some of the comments that John Godard made, but it’s also just like in the film, Amelia Perez, this is something that people haven’t seen in the movie are often like, you’re just making things up about this movie now. But Emilia Pérez ends up getting her surgery in Tel Aviv, like in Israel, from an Israeli doctor who doesn’t seem to like trans people very much. It’s all very confused. But even just like the way that the movie is like playing into this idea that Israel is a place of like trans and queer acceptance, when the first place that she goes to is Thailand. And that would make way more sense to have gender affirming surgery for this person. So like just it’s also the world in which the film lives is racist and is conservative and right wing in these ways. And so the tweets are really awful and I think have made it so Karla Sofía Gascón. I mean, I doubt she’ll even at the Oscars. Maybe she will be I that’s still unknown, at least at this time. But I think my fear is that because of the current moment we’re in, there will be people who are Academy voters who are like, yeah, who double down, who maybe wouldn’t even have voted for her and are like, someone should not win because of their tweets. So there’s a world, I guess, where Emilia Pérez still wins a bunch of awards. That’s a world that scares me because not just the quality of the film, but also the idea of taking this is sort of cost labor. Yeah, like a cultural statement about like cancel culture and about how it’s okay to tweet. Horrible thing. I mean, I don’t necessarily recommend anyone like, seek out the things that she said. But they’re like, people have been canceled for a lot less. I’ll say that much like it’s truly like a next level of terrible.

Speaker 1 [00:37:42] Lastly, I want to shift to the extremely positive, which is what do you think as a film? And it doesn’t have to have been mainstream. It could be indie, it could just be one that’s, you know, on the on the film festival circuit, like one that we, we may know about or not, that you say, if I had to put forth a film that was trans in terms of either the story or the actors or the director, this is the one that I would put forth as an Oscar. Like in an ideal world, like for you, what’s that film?

Speaker 2 [00:38:18] My favorite trans film from last year was Stress Positions, which is written and directed by Kate Hamill, who’s a trans woman. She also costars in it, and it feels like the kind of, you know, if we want stories about trans people who aren’t perfect, who do have a lot of flaws but aren’t sort of this caricature. Stress positions has that. I think it’s a really artful film, I think because it’s sort of like people in Brooklyn behaving badly movie. I think it kind of got written off a little bit or not. It’s just smaller and has been seen, but written off a little bit for just sort of being like, oh, you know, anything, you know, post. Lena Dunham girls were all this sort of like, oh, it’s in Brooklyn. It has like annoying privileged people. It’s it falls into that category. But I think there’s a real there’s a real artfulness to it that is impressive on such a low budget. And this is a really great film. And then one that’s coming out this year is an intersex film, Ponyboy, which it stars and is written by River Gallo, and that is a film that also like fits into, You. I don’t want to say into an Emilia Pérez world, because I don’t want it to be taken as a criticism, but it’s like there is action in it, like it is. It is like a crime film that also is an intersex story. And I think it’s so good and I’m so excited for people to see it. A lot of times when there are trans films that I love and I see on the award circuit, you know, there’s this this movie called The Cow who sang a song into the future that’s like very artsy. And I’ll recommend a certain people, but, you know, maybe not to everybody, but Ponyboy is like a crowd pleaser, and it’s like, so fun, but also so, like, grounded in an intersex experience. And I’m really excited for people to see that. And then also, just as long as I’m here, like the short film that I released last year, like, has two transformative people who do try to kill each other. And when Karla Sofía Gascón was like, people just want, you know, got mad at trans critics who had written negatively about Emilia Pérez was like, trans people just want like, you know, stories where we’re perfect. And also if these critics just go out and make their own movies. And I was like, well, good thing I’m a multi-hyphenate because I did make a film last year called Chloe and Jame. And yeah, there’s a trans woman is murdered by another trans from any person in it. So it’s like beyond the like potentially gauche personal shout out. I do just want to underline that. Like, I want work that is challenging. I want work where trans people do things that we don’t approve of, whether that’s like, has sex with the wrong person. And we’re like, I don’t know, don’t do that. Or like, is fully murdering someone. What I don’t want is to go back in time to, you know, silence of the lambs or even a Danish girl like sort of dichotomy between totally good or totally evil and never human. And so that’s sort of like my main thing is I just want characters that feel deep and interesting and grounded in somebody’s trans experience, even if it’s not.

Speaker 1 [00:41:40] Well, drew, thank you so much for joining us and for bringing all of your expertise as a Hollywood insider, as a filmmaker, as a person who has been on set and a part of making movies behind the scenes as well, and as a film critic, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 [00:41:56] Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 [00:41:58] That was film critic and film maker Drew Burnett Gregory. Thank you for joining me on the TransLash podcast. I listen all the way through to the end of the show for something extra. If you like what you heard, make sure you leave a comment on Spotify or a five star review on Apple Podcast. Just the other day, we got a review from Tater Tot Casserole, 78, who said, Bravo! This show is exceptional and all ways Amara never ceases to impress and inspire are many thanks to her and her guests who enlighten and inspire on each episode. Tater Tot Casserole 78. I thought that you were going to be leaving a food review, but me and my team appreciate your review here so much. And if, like tater tot casserole, you want to go and leave a comment, you might just hear it rant out on the show. You can listen to TransLash wherever you get your podcast. Check us out on the web at translash.org. To sign up for our weekly newsletter, follow us on TikTok, blue Sky X and Instagram TransLash media. Like us on Facebook and tell your friends! The TransLash podcast is produced by TransLash media. TransLash team includes Oliver-Ash Kleine and Aubrey Calloway. Xander Adams is our senior sound engineer and a contributing producer. This show gets to your ears with the help of our social media team, including Morgan Astbury. The music you heard was composed by Ben Draghi and also courtesy of CC K records. TransLash podcast is made possible by the support of foundations and listeners like you. So this show drops and many of you are likely listening to it on February 27th, which also happens to be my mom’s birthday. She passed a little over a decade ago, and so she is very much in my thoughts all the time, but especially this time of the year, and especially on my birthday. I think that she would have loved this show and would have had plenty to say about it. You be sure. So I am thinking about my mother this week. That is what is on my mind. And yeah, just thinking good thoughts.